Year of the Omnirumour - 2013 - August & September

August 2013

5 – On PMF, Mr. Ron (deleted user 4238) posts a clue about new Doctor, Peter Capaldi and the recovered serials (see 2 August 2014).

6 - On their Twitter, OS confirm that the stories they believe to have been recovered in full are: Marco Polo; The Enemy of the World; and The Web of Fear. Until now, they state, OS were not in a position to go public with the story names, but were recently given permission to do so by their source. They claim that in addition to these full stories there are other episodes that have been recovered. They also state however that an official announcement is still some time away. 

This would correspond with the earlier-rumoured 17+ total of episodes found.

7 - The 'Lost 60's Episodes Find?' thread on PMF stands at over 300 pages.

9 - PMF member eyeoforion makes the observation that the official Doctor Who Youtube channel has recently ceased posting its regular clips from upcoming DVD special features – despite there still being new releases.

9 - BC posts something of a back-pedal as regards how many stories they believe have been found. Rich Johnston now believes it's three stories - plus a few extra episodes.

A screen grab is included of the official Dad's Army website where it states 'there will be 6 episodes' where previously they were missing. Dad's Army have long been rumoured to be part of the haul of 8,000 film cans imported by TIEA.

(Editorial: it appears that Rich Johnston's previous sources may have gone to ground by this point, and speculating, he may be getting the above info from an alternative source who either knows less or is not prepared to reveal everything.)

Johnston also hints that Phillip Morris - he of TIEA, the shipping ticket and the alleged 8,000 film cans (not to mention "not missing but destroyed the end") may soon be giving an exclusive interview to Starburst Magazine. (See also 16-17 February 2013).

11 - Scot Ferre, a forum poster claiming for some time to have a source that has seen parts of the missing episodes, posts on GB that that the delay in an announcement about the recovery is due to the fact that one of the reasons for the delay cannot be publicly revealed.

12 - On their Twitter, OS once again state that they believe 3 full serials have been found. In addition, in response to a question as to the timing of announcement, they state that they have heard that "things are moving again" and that there may yet be an announcement "this side of 2014".

12 - In part 15 of 'The Missing Episodes Megathread' on GB, member Charles Daniels claims that a 'source' alleges that IL's "vow of silence" on Twitter re. the missing eps recovery was "bought" with a private screening of either Marco Polo or The Web of Fear.

12 - PMF member Jason Mahoney quotes a post on the Roobarbs forum by Steve Roberts of the Restoration Team. SR posts that the RT's involvement in the Doctor Who range is winding down, and after The Moonbase and The Underwater Menace are delivered, that's it for them. Debate breaks out across multiple forums as to the veracity of this statement and what it means for the omni-rumour.

13 - On their Twitter, OS expand on recent tweets, stating they have heard the numbers 25-30 in relation to missing eps recovered, and that many of these (presumably outside the 17 relating to Marco/Enemy/Web) ‘are Dalek in nature’.

14 - PMF member Jason Mahoney quotes a post from Scot Ferre on GB, that another restoration company, and not the RT, may in fact be involved in restoring the recently-recovered episodes. One likely candidate seems to be The Film Clinic, who have it listed on their front page that they have already worked on Doctor Who.

15 - Outpost Skaro temporarily lock their Missing Episodes thread, on the grounds that there may be developments imminent. The thread is later re-opened, with no announcements being made.

17 – GB news reports an announcement from Steve Roberts (RT) that a very rare, archival interview with William Hartnell dating from 1967 has been found by Richard Bignell. The article also states that David Bradley, the actor performing as Hartnell in a soon-to-be-shown docu-drama, was shown the interview to assist him in preparing for the role.

22 – An article in UK publication The Guardian quotes Richard Bignell as saying that the Hartnell interview was in fact found – in 2009. It was only transferred to a digital format at the BBC Television Centre in the summer of 2011.

26 – On the Missing Episodes Megathread part 17, Scot Ferre confirms that he still thinks the number of found episodes is 90+ but recovery efforts are STILL underway. He also states that there is more than one find. He reaffirms that The Web of Fear is definitely found.

September 2013

During September, the omni-rumour continues to rumble onwards, buoyed by the news from Scot Ferre and others that Marco Polo, The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear continue to be assessed for viability and prepped for DVD release as soon as possible.

1 – Members on both PMF and GB post that an event called Long Island’s Doctor Who convention to be held 8-10 November in the US will feature many Doctor Who related panels but in particular the following two items:

* Marco Polo Part 3 Live Commentary with Waris Hussein – with Arnold T. Blumberg and John Peel

* Missing Episodes Panel – John Peel, Frazer Hines, and moderater Leslie Hartman discuss the missing episodes from the black & White era

Needless to say this is highly question-begging; Marco Polo episode 3 – live???

The following day, the site amends the Marco Polo entry with: (Reconstruction). Hmm.

2 – The ‘Lost 60’s Episodes Find?’ thread on PMF is now in excess of 500 pages. The Missing Episodes thread on OS is in excess of 300 pages.

3 – PMF member Lord_Flashheart posts a link to a Radio Times interview with Anneke Wills, wherein it is stated: “In recent times, she’s narrated Doctor Who books for AudioGo and Big Finish CD dramas as Polly and lets slip, “There’s all sorts of secrets going on but I can’t tell you.” She’s bitterly clenching her teeth. “I’m hopeless at secrets.” 

All she’ll say is: “I’m 70 now and this is my pension. I’m still talking about Doctor Who and thrilled to do so. How could we know then that we’d become part of cultural immortality. YES!!”

In addition, PMF member Llamastrangler posts that he interviewed Ms Wills as part of the DW PubCast, and she deliberately brought up the missing eps rumours saying: “What if they were true?” What, indeed.

3 – Bleedingcool.com reports that a previously-wiped and known-to-be-missing episode of beloved BBC comedy series ‘Dad’s Army’ is being listed on Digiguide as showing on Saturday 14 September! This was also spotted by PMF member anderscja prior to the publishing of the BC report.

For reference here is the link to Wikipedia’s entry detailing the three missing episodes of Dad’s Army. In addition, here is a page where PMF member Jason Mahoney has enquired about the My Digi Guide entry.

Also here is the Radio Times BBC2 TV listing.

3 – MEF member Tim Burrows posts there about the Dad’s Army listing.

3 – Jason Mahoney posts on the Walmington (Dad’s Army) forums enquiring about the BC article about the Dad’s Army listing. A member responds saying that they have heard nothing of a recovered Dad’s Army episode.

4 – Jason Mahoney’s enquiry receives a response; by “tomorrow evening” (UK time), the schedule for the 14^th and beyond will be fully updated and confirmed. (This will be by approx. 8am Friday 6 September, AEST).

5 – The member posts that he believes the BFi to have been a neutral party in the recovery, holding on to the discovered eps and acting as negotiator between the BBC and the rights holders.

5 – PMF member iank posts that the husband of a member of another DW forum, The Hive, has a friend who works at the BBC. Ms Lusiphur’s actual thread post states that her husband’s friend says that The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear “are currently being restored” and an announcement may come soon (see October 6, 2013).

6 – On PMF, Mr. Ron posts an analysis of PV’s comments over the past few years, which shows that the BBC production office only became aware of the global recovery effort in November 2011 after the return of 'Airlock' and TUM2. So were the BBC not really co-sponsors after all, as PV claimed? 

But he does provide a quote from MEF to the effect that:

·         It was Head of BBC Video Sue Kerr with whom the missing episode hunters were liaising, and it was she who covered the costs of transfer to UK;

·         Caroline Skinner was briefed in November 2011 – after the return of 'Airlock' and TUM2 – about the ongoing recovery effort. This seems to be about the time PV drew up his “list of 44”.

6 – Posters on GB and PMF are saying that an announcement may come at an event called ExCel being held in London – which coincides with the 50^th anniversary weekend. The @DWCelebration Twitter feed has been quiet since 5 August.

6 – In record time, Part 20 of the Missing Episodes Megathread on GB reaches over 20 pages (in well under 48 hours!)

8 – ON PMF, Charles Daniels posts that the missing episodes of season 3 as well as season 4’s The Smugglers were found in Sierra Leone. For various reasons, the searchers have tried to cover up the Sierra Leone finds (as covered ad nauseam on parts 19 and 20 of the GB Megathread).

8 – Meanwhile, markpuqui posts that the missing Troughton episodes were found in Hong Kong and Ghana.

8 – In response to a post by Jason Mahoney, the member posts that TIEA were searching Zambia as early as 2008, with a first visit taking place even earlier.

8 – Both ssorguk and markpuqui post that they believe negotiations with Philip Morris to be over.

8 – Scot Ferre posts that he believes Ian Levine was asked to keep quiet over missing episode recoveries.

9 – PMF member Taztiger72 posts his updated list of episodes believed recovered together with locations:

Updated list:
ote: Australia & New Zealand (except where notated)* also received everything here too.

Marco Polo (Barbados, Ethiopia, Ghana, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Thailand, Zambia, Zimbabwe)
The Reign of Terror (Barbados, Ethiopia, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Thailand, Zambia, Zimbabwe)
The Crusade (Barbados, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
Galaxy 4 (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Myth Makers (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Massacre (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Celestial Toymaker (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Savages (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Smugglers (Barbados, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Zambia)
The Tenth Planet (Singapore, Ghana)

The Power of the Daleks (Singapore, Ghana)
The Highlanders (Hong Kong, Uganda, Zambia)
The Underwater Menace (Hong Kong, Uganda, Zambia)
The Moonbase (Hong Kong, Uganda, Zambia)
The Macra Terror (Hong Kong, Uganda, Zambia)
The Faceless Ones (Hong Kong, Uganda, Zambia)
The Evil of the Daleks (Hong Kong)
The Abominable Snowmen (Ghana, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Zambia)
The Enemy of the World (Ghana, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Zambia)
The Wheel in Space (Hong Kong, Nigeria)
The Web of Fear (Ghana, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Zambia)
Fury from the Deep (Hong Kong)
The Ice Warriors (Hong Kong, Zambia)
The Invasion (Hong Kong)*
The Space Pirates (Hong Kong, Zambia)*

9 – Paul Vanezis makes what would seem to be some extremely telling comments on his Twitter account in response to enquiries about finds being made Sierra Leone. Amongst other things, he says nothing can be done about any alleged finds until the fan community stops being so obsessed with rumours.

9 – On GB, Douglas Wulf posts that the Africa search took a major hit in 2009, due to the belief that prints that had been in Sierra Leone were destroyed. However, Doug alludes to the notion that the prints may simply have moved elsewhere, and then as the recovery team followed up on certain leads they were discovered in other parts in 2010 and later.

9 – On OS forums, ssorguk answers an enquiry about Sierra Leone saying, that we were fed BS about the Sierra Leone archives being destroyed to put us off the scent, and that it seems that country was in the habit of using other countries to back up their sound and film archives. (DEAD LINK)

10 – PMF member Jason Mahoney quotes several posts by David Stead (missing ep hunter) on MEF which make the following points:

·         He does not rule out Sierra Leone, Zambia or Ethiopia;

·         We will not get an announcement until an official time due to NDA’s being signed;

·         He has certain sources at the BBC after many years of involvement in episode recoveries and he believes PV misled him over the Terry Burnett finds in 2011;

·         He is reliably informed that certain stories around a large TV Find are true, including more than one find of Doctor Who episodes;

·         The involvement of Philip Morris and his company, TIEA, is confirmed;

·         He refers back to the behaviour of Ian Levine earlier in the year;

·         He mentions PV’s tweet that he cannot divulge information for the time being; and

·         He alludes to some of the recovered material as belonging to ITV and thus an extra reason for the delay in an announcement;

·         He opines that so many how seem to know information about the finds, that it seems time for someone to stand up and say something.

Information on who David Stead is here and here and here.

One of David’s MEF posts here.

10 – The member speculates that Stead was given the go-ahead to make the above comments by RT individuals both to indicate that something is in the works and to defuse some of the more extreme negativity that was being generated by the debunking going on.

10 – Various members on PMF point out that some of David Stead’s posts are now being deleted on MEF. This seems to fly in the face of the member’s theory that Stead was authorised by PV and co., but the member implies that it’s all for effect. However David Stead’s original comments are still there – ironically where he states he believes PV misled him! (Update: PV closes then reopens the Doctor Who ME thread. The whole saga is closely commented on in the PMF Lost 60’s Episodes Find? thread.)

However the post is edited – the line about PM and TIEA is gone. However PMF member farsighted took a screen shot showing the original post.

10 - SWH posts on GB that the contents of threads on MEF can be linked to – BUT NOT COPIED onto GB! The missing episode thread on PMF goes bananas.

11 – PMF member ssorguk quotes Charles Daniels and BlackEmperor from OS that their GB PM accounts have been hacked. Jason Mahoney further mentions that some people on GB have been threatened because of their posts on GB.

11 – PMF member King Womble posts twice to say that the reason for delay is not conspiracy but there are still ongoing negotiations and requests for payment. In addition, he believes that all Troughtons bar The Invasion and The Space Pirates are back, and all Hartnells bar MTTU/TDMP.

11 – Jason Mahoney quotes the Twitter feed of Eddie_At_Skaro:

·         We now have access to the Source #allmissingepisodesinsafehands

·         caveat... all MEs being negotiated for I should say. I should know the Internet can't think for itself!

·         Yep I heard that too. Not confident to say WHAT it is yet, but definitely a fourth full story!

12 – The member posts that Bignell found the Hartnell interview in a regional archive – thus implying that perhaps some of the missing episodes may have been found in this manner as well.

14 – PMF member markpuqui posts that his sources close to the BBC were expecting a June/July announcement but things got delayed at that point. The source had told a few fans this but was then left high and dry. The source still feels there will be an announcement before November.

14 – PMF member Taztiger72 posts that the breakdown of the recovery goes like this:

·         8000+ films found in the global search;

·         300+ episodes of Doctor Who found in various locations;

·         90+ of these were of Doctor Who episodes that were still officially missing from the archive;

·         200+ dupes of those either found in other batches or currently existing in the archive.

15 – Philip Morris makes his first Doctor Who related post on the TIEA Facebook account since the “not missing but destroyed the end” saga. He says:

“T.I.E.A understands the passion felt by Doctor Who fans and that looking for missing episodes of doctor who plus many other series is an important but tiny part of the work that T.I.E.A does.

The main aim of this organisation, is to assist those archives, whose own cultural items are at risk and with the management of their facilities.

If any films/tapes of missing British TV do exist overseas, their location, identification and recovery, especially from areas of civil and political instability, can be seriously hindered by inappropriate scrutiny and publicity from uninvolved third parties.

If any such films do exist T.I.E.A will endeavour to recover them safely, as with the two sky at night episodes.

However as much as people want specific programmes found, wishing them into existence will not magically return them.

Any legitimate enquires for T.I.E.A services are welcome however individuals trying to extract information which does not exist or is commercially confidential will be deleted unread .

Keep watching..

Executive Director Philip Morris.”

 

In addition, it appears Morris has deleted said Facebook “not missing but destroyed the end” post.

Several PMF posters make the observation that this is a huge turnaround from his previous post, and it implies he still looking for something that previously he said no longer exists. Posters believe this signals an announcement may be imminent.

16 – On OS, member SirIsh posts that he saw Frazer Hines at Nor-Con last weekend and asked him if he was aware of the missing eps rumours. Hines allegedly responded that he thought the BBC might be planning an announcement on or around the 50^th anniversary date!

16 – On GB, Scot Ferre pokes his head out of hiding to say that he believes The Power of the Daleks may be available sooner than thought.

17 – Meanwhile, Ian Levine weighs back in to the ME debate on Twitter, three months after falling silent on the matter:

I know I vowed to stay silent but I cannot help but wonder if there really IS going to be a missing episode revelation tomorrow. Gotta dream

Then:

And one single solitary person holds all our hopes and dreams and wishes and happiness in his hands, with the power to bring us joy tomorrow

Okay everybody, I think we'd better not get overheated. I read Gallifrey Base today, and literally TONS of people think there's (continued) (continued) - think there's an announcement coming tomorrow. I got encouraged and I said I hope it's true. I know no more than that. FACT.

If there IS an announcement tomorrow, I shall rejoice. If there ISN'T then I shall quietly go back to lurking in silence. THE END.

17 – Meanwhile on PMF, the member makes an intriguing post about the possible pitfalls involved in the missing episode negotiations…

“Thats a bit simplistic.

Hypothetically what if the BBC are offering a less than acceptable price for "all".

A Finder or Holder may agree to let them have some, sign up to an agreement in principle for the rest - with a final price to be agreed once its clear how much was made on the initial returns. Technically, negotiations could be claimed to be sorted. That may still not be acceptable to the BBC though.

With no slight intended on BBC or anyone involved on any negotiation on the other side. Im obviously not privy to any negotiations that may may not have occurred. Everything said here is pure conjecture:

This stuff is missing, long gone. The BBC can't make money out of thin air - if you have physically acquired ownership, as opposed to solely identified material in overseas archives, of this many episodes you're in the pound seats surely.
Also PV - did he not play a major part in planning this operation - so what say does he have in any negotiations?. 

It's hardly unreasonable to suggest sales in excess of 150,000 units at RRP of say £16.99 in the uk alone for Web alone. Would you personally want a flat payment for extraordinary expenses or a percentage on profits ?. Without the reels the BBC can't exploit its copyright and it can't get heavy over ownership of the reels either..

Flip side is the renumeration being requested fair? - it's fine and dandy getting your mates to spread the word that 90% of the haul is being given free. But if you've inflated the price of the remaining 10% some 20, 30, 40 fold not 10 fold (to cover the costs for shipping all) .. well maybe then some disagreement breaks out in the ranks. 

Getting the balance right between a fair commercial deal and not losing the spirit of the fan ethos for locating archive tv could be challenging and ok lead to heated debate.

Then there are other reasons - whos to say all returns are as "straightforward"  as archive treasure troves from other nations. We could easily have private collector reels in the haul (I suspect there are) as this PV/PM operation to retrieve all manner of "lost" material has gone on for years. If private collections are managed via PV and were not donations or loans directly to the BBC there may be all manner of negotiations and conditions.”

18 – On PMF, member darnall42 notes that the region 2 DVD release of The Tenth Planet has been brought forward to 14 October, and the listing still states that the trailer is an “exclusive”.

18 – On the twitter feed of Paul Vanezis, he states that he is having a wonderful evening out with several heroes of Doctor Who. After a question from Twitter user anderscja, Vanezis replies:

Steve R, Richard Molesworth, Andrew Beech, Gareth Roberts, Sue Cowley + a foreign gentleman with a large film collection.

18 – On GB, Scot Ferre responds to a poster asking about the DVD release of The Tenth Planet being moved to October (according to some retail sites) and wondering what will be out in November instead. He says: “I received several PMs from three separate people. Patience – it’s coming…”

Also, in a later post Scot indicates that one of his sources is someone he has known online for years – and who has contacts with the current Doctor Who production team. In his opinion, this source is impeccable, and a few members of the team confirmed to the source that missing eps have indeed been returned.

18 – News & reviews website Kasterborous weigh in to the missing episode rumours after several months of nothing, with a post that states that the situation around a recovery is indeed delicate, and that the reasons for the repeated denials will soon become clear. A very intriguing piece!

27 – On PMF, iank posts to say that the Hive member’s husband, mentioned previously (see September 5), has now seen direct evidence that Enemy and Web are back. But the direct link to the original post states that the Hive member's husband has seen a text from a senior person involved with Doctor Who that confirms that "two stories are in".

29 – On PMF, Charles Daniels says he managed to attend a screening of non-Who material found by TIEA in Africa on 19 July 2013. He then had a conversation with a BBC TV executive (16 August 2013) who told Charles that the number of missing Doctor Who episodes was now “significantly lower than 106”.